Group 5's Thoughts on Chapters 23 & 24

Chapter 23
Holden called to Antolini, and he come back room. He met with Phoebe, and talked about Phoebe’s story, his own situation, and appeared by this time many things. And then He danced with Phoebe. Holden’s parents come back where they were, so Holden hid in Phoebe’s closet. Phoebe made up an excuse about being busy to her parents. Phoebe gave to Holden 8 dollars 65 cents, so Holden cried that he thanked to Phoebe. He decided that he live
in Antolini teacher’s house until Tuesday, and he gave red hunting hat for Phoebe. He told to Phoebe, and he left.

Chapter 24
The Antolini’s house was very untidy because the house has Buffalo friends of the party. He told that Pency grades, living in school, Vinson’s class teaching story, deviation of any child talk, and the uncle story in the farm. Antolini’s wife inquires after to Holden.  Antolini was telling that he met Holden’s father for Holden. The talking contents were the story of concerning to Holden, story of disciplining to Holden, and the psychiatrist Wilhelm Stekel’s book giving the story. His father send to letter for Holden, and when Holden received  this letter, please realize Holden. The first of realizing was back to school, again admission, and important to school. His father said that educated people have the talent, and the creativity that when the value is. And then Holden went to sleep, but Antolini teacher pat Holden’s head. So, Holden left.

Holden has silly point, but he has a nice point that he takes care of his sister. In addition, Antolini teacher was a good teacher, but his last behavior can not imagine. Holden's father felt very worried, so we wish that Holden is changed to his thinking.

HW For Commentators:
1. Where did he spend time until Tuesday? 
2. Why did Holden cry when Phoebe gave him money? 
3. What is Holden father’s wish for Holden? 

Other Groups:
Group 1: Commentator
Group 2: Philosopher
Group 3: Heckler
Group 4: Commentator

Group 4's Thoughts on Chapters 21 & 22

When Holden arrived at his home, he felt sense of security. Pete who was regular night elevator bot was not on the car. Some new guy he had never seen was on the car. Holden was pleased, because he thought that he could meet Phoebe easily. Holden told new elevator guy to take him up to the Dicksteins’ floor. The Dicksteins were other apartment on his floor. Holden deceive elevator guy that he was nephew of Dicksteins. When he got off at his floor, he went to his house, and opened the door. He entered his house very quietly. Although his father and maid did not hear well, his mother heard very well. When Holden opened the Phoebe’s room, he was not in his room, because he was in D.B’s room. So he went to D.B’s room, and he met Phoebe. As soon as Holden woke up Phoebe, he woke up fast. They talked to the play that she was in first and they talked a lot of things then Holden got out of D.B’s room. They talked a lot of things such as play and D.B, and Phoebe knew Holden was failed, so Phoebe worried Holden. In this chapter Holden’s action was always so cautious, because he did not know when he was caught by his parents. When he met Phoebe, he felt gladness and happiness.Holden returned to D.B’S room and began to talk with Phoebe. Phoebe resented Holden, so Holden tried to soothe Phoebe. He talked about his Pency school’s story. Holden said Robert Burns’s poem to Phoebe. Holden wanted to be catcher in the rye. Holden also mentioned Spencer. At the end of chapter, Holden call to Mr.Antolini. Maybe, Holden and Phoebe will bring reconciliation.

Questions for commentators:
What is the name of Phoebe’s play and Phoebe’s role? 
Why Holden wanted to be catcher in the rye?
If you were Holden and Phoebe knew Holden was fail, how did you talk to Phoebe?

Other Groups:
Group 1: Philosopher
Group 2: Commentator
Group 3: Heckler
Group 4: Commentator

Group 3's Thoughts on Chapters 19 & 20

In chapter 19, Holden visited bar named Wicker. It located in Seton hotel. He used to go there quite a lot, but he will never been there anymore because it is well known to phonies. However there are two girls named Tina and Janine. Every night they played piano and sing about three times a day.  Tina played piano but she got terrible skill and Janine got pretty good at singing but she always singing whispering into the microphone also they sang a song half of dirty French and English. However they are famous to phonies. They are applauding and all did. By the way, he met Luce. He is student adviser when he was at Whooton. Luce likes to talk about sex and also he has many knowledge about sex and girls too. When he came to bar he order dry Martini without olive because he want to as dry as drink. He didn’t want to talk seriously as like typically Holden’s and after threaten, he talks about his girlfriend. She is from Shanghai and much older than Luce. Almost she closes to 40. It means that she is late 30. However Holden asked to Luce that why are you met with old Chinese. Then he said, “It’s too involved to go into, for God’s sake and they simply happen to regard sex as both a physical and a spiritual experience.” (Salinger, P.146) After they talked Luce left the bar because he got a meet with someone. Moreover he recommends that visit to psychologist. Why Luce recommends that visit to psychologist?

In chapter 20, Holden kept drinking and waiting Tina and Janine to come out and do their stuff but they weren’t there. A flitty looking guy played piano and Valencia came out and sang. Holden gave her the old eye, but she pretended she didn’t see Holden. We think that Holden always want girl but he can’t Holden drank at that goddam bar till one o’clock. Holden want to call to Jane, but he was too drunk. Holden always think about Jane. He forgot to call Jane. He called to Sally Hayes. First time Sally’s grandmother answered after that Sally answered. We think Jane grandmother didn’t want to answered Holden. Jane didn’t want to talk and she said “Go to bed now”. Holden went toilet and he dunked his head in cold water. Holden walked to radiator and sat down. Then pretty soon, the guy that played piano came into toilet. Holden provoked to him but he ignored Holden. Holden went out to the hat check room and Holden felt damn depressed. Holden went out to the check room but he couldn’t find goddam check. The hat check girl was nice so she gave coat anyway. Holden want out and went park. Holden dropped Phoebe’s record. It broke into fifty pieces. Holden wanted to find lagoon, but he didn’t find easier. Finally he found lake it has any duck. Holden thought it’s take his mind off getting pneumonia and dying. We think Holden scared about death. Holden thought about Phoebe and he thought it is better sneak home and see Phoebe. Holden got of the park, and went home.

Questions for Commentators:

1.At the Wicker Bar, located in the posh Seton Hotel, Holden thinks about Luce. How holden think about Luce?
2.When Holden ask to Luce about whether Luce's father, what act Luce did?
3.Holden didn't go Alley's funeral, why he didn't go Alley's funeral?
4.If you are Holden and you failed all of call to date someone, what will you do? 

Other Groups:
Group 1- Heckler
Group 2- Commentator
Group 4- Philosopher
Group 5- Commentator

Group 2's Ideas on 17 & 18

First, we will talk about summary of 17. Holden watched that girls sitting and standing around waiting for their boyfriend. Being Holden looked girls, he think that her life is so not good because many girl's boyfriends was stupid. Even thought their boyfriend are very boring, not fun and they don't have smart idea. That time, Holden see Sally on the floor. He think that Sally is very beautiful. Sally was wearing black coat and hat. In addition, Holden think that he will want to marry with Sally. After they said hello, went to playhouse because they will see the Lunts. During get to theater, long time no felt their love in taxi. Many poor guy talked about the Lunts, Holden hate them. Sally said to Holden, She want to go to the Radio City because she want to ride on skate. She said, the skating place borrow about pretty clothes. Finally, Sally want to wearing pretty blue short skirt. Holden liked Sally's skate clothes. They ordered coke and then, they talk about their life. For example, she does not want to go to the school. Then, Holden said to Sally, spending together with you time was so tired. Finally, she was so angry. Holden apologized Sally again and again, but she refused his sorry mind. Surprising fact is, Holden was bored about Sally.

Next, we will talk about summary of 18. After he went out the skate rink, he ate cheese sandwiches and milk. And then he wants to call to Jane. Holden wants to dance with Jane. Holden already saw that Jane danced with Al Pike. Holden thought that he always shows off, but Jane didn’t think that. Jane thought he is just inferiority complex. Holden blames girls because girls always different thinking like boys. Anyway, he called to Jane, but she didn’t hang it, so he called to someone who play with him tonight, but there are not address. There are just 3 addresses, so he called to Carl Luce. Holden make appointment with him. He had plenty of times, so he went to the movies at Radio City. He watched the show. The showed played Rockettes and skate show, but Holden is not interest in. After show is over, the movie is started, but it is not fun either. After he watches the movie, he thought about his brother D.B. D.B. He was in the army for 4years. Holden didn’t understand about D.B’s preference book. And then chapter 18 is over.

             I think these parts absolutely to show that Holden's immature personality. Sometimes he seems to mature, but he isn't because he said that just what he thinks such as he told the date with Sally is boring to her. It is very rude,so he makes Sally is angry. And I can feel that Holden is really lonely because he wants to meet people even though he meets them long time ago and not funny when he is with them.
Also, I think Holden wants to hang out with people, but he doesn't know the way that how can hang out with people.

For HW, Commentators do the following:

1. Why Holden thought that the date was boring with Sally.

2. How Holden thinks about the show, Rockettes’ Christmas stage?

3. Why Holden blames about girl’s thinking?

Group 1: Heckler

Group 3: Philosopher

Group 4: Commentator

Group 5: Commentator

The Best Thing...

Years ago, in ancient Greece, there was a philosopher by the name of Heraclitus. One of his greatest (or rather most well known) statements was "you can never step in the same river twice", meaning to say that change is permanent, unavoidable, and always happening. Despite this fact, we all tend to have different interpretations on change. For some, we accept it with open arms, others we fight it strongly, only to lose the battle in the end. That's the issue with fighting change, more often than not, you're fighting a losing battle. However, it never seems to stop us from trying does it? We're all guilty of trying to act younger than we are at times, we take pictures of everything we do to hold on to certain moments in time forever, and we tend to get uncomfortable or upset when something breaks the cycles or habits we're used to. Ever get upset when the internet takes more than 5 seconds to do something? Its because we expect it to be faster, but something is different from the way things normally are, and we get upset about it. :-)

For example, in Chapter 16 Holden says...

"The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody'd move. You could go there a hundred thousand times, and that Eskimo would still be just finished catching those two fish, the birds would still be on their way south...Nobody'd be different. The only thing that would be different would be you" (Salinger 121)

What is it that Holden enjoys about the museum? Does he seem to be more excited about the fact that he's different? Or more that everything is the same? How do you think Holden would react if every time he returned to the museum it was new exhibits? Would he feel the same way or be upset? 

If we infer that this is true, that maybe change is what makes Holden upset. What does this tell us about maybe how Holden perceives the world around him? For example, what connection might there be between "change" and how Holden hates "phonies"? 

For Homework: Commentators do the following :What is a place you feel never changes even though you do? What do you like this about that particular location? Be sure to explain your answer. (5 Sentences Minimum)

Group 5's Thoughts on Chapters 12 & 13

Holden took a taxi which was very awful and decrepit. Holden was trying to talk the taxi
driver naturally. The taxi driver was named Horwitz, Holden thought a better taxi driver than
the taxi driver that Holden saw in the past. A taxi driver did not know about the duck, but the
man pulled out the first talking about fish story for Holden. Holden arrived in the in front of
the Ernie club, and Holden went into the club. The famous African American pianist in club,
who called ‘Ernie’ he played the piano very well. Holden has ordered a Scotch and soda water.
Holden saw Yale man and beautiful girl that they drank together, and Holden thought that if
Holden father recommended Ivy League universities, Holden would reject his father’s
advising. Next, Holden contacted with Lillian Simon in the Ernie club, and she even knew
him. Also, she said hello to his brother D.B.

In chapter 13, plot
Holden walked to hotel because he thought troublesome which was riding taxi. He lost his
gloves in the Pencey, he wanted to hold a thief. He did not have ambition, gloves risk that the
same thing, did not care. When he arrived in hotel, elevator boy has tried to ask for Holden
that a woman for fun, so Holden was yes, and waited for the woman in his room. The
woman’s name was Sunny. She had to undress on the Holden’s bed, but Holden tried to talk
with her. But she did not have time to Holden, Holden said feeling unwell for sex would not
be. He came up to her compassion, so he gave to money for Sunny. But she went out his
room and hold him angry.

Felt point: we felt that Holden played to a very disorderly in young , he has not ambitious
nature of the back-story reveals shall be deemed to affect. Compassion to the poor man, he
has good mind.

Questions for commentators:

Question: 1. Why Holden has promiscuous life at a young age?

        2. Why Holden had given the money for Sunny without any requests?

        3. Why Holden did refuse when Lillian Simon said that Holden sat next to her?

Other Groups:

Group 1) Commentator

Group 2) Heckler

Group 3) Philosopher

Group 4) Commentator

Outsider's thoughts on Chapters 10 & 11

Summary 10 & 11

Holden didn’t felt tired, and time wasn’t too late. Therefore, he opened his suitcase and he wore a clean shirt. He planned to go Lavender Room. Lavender Room is a night club in the hotel. While Holden was wearing a shirt, he came close to call to Phoebe. He liked to call with Phoebe. Phoebe had good sense. Anyway, Holden went to the Lavender Room, and he ordered some drink. In the night club, some people were in there. Three girls who were placed next to Holden’s table giggled Holden. Holden wanted to dance, so he went to the three girls table and asked to dance. Blonde girl accepted the proposal. Holden thought she danced very well. While Holden was dancing with blonde girl, he talked to her silly talk. After he danced with blonde girl, he danced with two girls one by one. After that, Holden drank with three girls and talked to them. When those girls finished drink, they got out the Lavender Room. As soon as they got out the club, Holden got out the club quickly. While he was walking in the lobby, Holden thought about Jane again. He reminded the recollection between him and Jane. After that, Holden went to his room. There was nothing interesting to do. Therefore, Holden quitted the hotel and took a taxi to go to club which is located in Greenwich Village. We think that Holden started to bore living in New York, because he was disappointed in New York life. He was treated child, so he couldn’t enjoy New York life.

For homework, commentators do the following:

1.     Why Holden get out Lavender Room quickly?

2.     Why Holden said that Jane is not a kind of cold(icicle) girl?

3.     How Holden described Phoebe in the text?

4.     Why the women giggled Holden?

Other groups:

Group 1) Heckler

Group 2) Commentator

Group 3) Commentator

Group 5) Philosopher